Mike: 0:02

Welcome to how I generate it, where I talked to AI filmmakers about their projects, their inspiration. And of course how they generate it. Today, I'm talking to Melody and Dina also known as LeMoon and Ethereal Gwirl who combined forces to become uh, co-creating duo known as Ethereal Moon.. Ethereal moon is known for their strong storytelling combined with expressive and enjoyably disturbing nostalgia. We cover a lot in this episode from collaboration, prompting tips, getting sponsorships. And things like understanding training data to get the best results from your prompts. I Really enjoyed talking to Dina and melody, and I hope you'll enjoy the following conversation with a Ethereal Moon. Melody and Dina, thank you so much for being on How I Generate It. Your, a collaborative duo? I assume you were both doing AI stuff separately. How did this collaboration start?

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 1:02

Yeah, so it's kind of, I mean, it's kind of crazy. We talk about it all the time because we both were on Instagram just kind of doing our own thing, and Melody, I think, reached out to me and was like, I like your stuff, like, would you want to do a collaboration? And from there, we actually didn't do a collaboration. We created something called the Midnight What was it, melody, the midnight collective. Yeah. It's been a while at this point, like a, a year ago. And it was. Yeah, we were like drawn to storytelling. So we were trying to get people to tell stories through carousels on like, you know, image carousels, cause video really wasn't out at that time. So that was kind of our first project together, but then we became like friendly and our lives seem to have a lot in common and our styles were very. Complimentary, I won't say similar, but super complimentary to each other. And we had joined like forces to do a runway competition, the Gen 48, and we worked really well together and just kind of continued from there.

Melody aka LeMoon: 2:19

We did share a very early discord server together. So we were used to prompt together, even if we weren't like working on stuff actively. And I think it, it like, build also the relationship. It's helped because we sharing the prompt is like sharing the secrets, you know, the secrets of

Mike: 2:44

Um hmm

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 2:45

People are very, they keep their prompts, like, close to the chest, and we were very, like, open about, like, let's just make the best thing that we can possibly make, I trust you, let's just, you know, start blending our styles together and see what we get, and yeah, I mean, it's been, like, a progress a progressive friendship relationship, like, anything, it just, you know, it was very very driven by the, Like business creative side, but the friendship is, I feel like she's one of my best friends at this point, which is so

Melody aka LeMoon: 3:17

you are my best friend for sure.

Mike: 3:19

Aww. She's one

Melody aka LeMoon: 3:20

we're talking every day. I think I told you more than my husband. more than my husband. Yeah,

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 3:26

Yeah, I do feel that way. And it's funny because I like tell my husband, I'm like, we found something else out that is like, we have in common. Like every time we talk, I feel like there's something new. So it's just been a really great, like, dynamic.

Mike: 3:41

I love that because one thing that I feel that I really enjoy about this moment in AI is that you have a lot of people who've been really creative, but they don't have the right outlet for it. They don't have the right way to express themselves. And they might not know people who are also interested in those things. And I feel like I've seen a lot of things like where people will connect in general on a computer. a discord server where you feel like, Oh, there's other people out there that are interested in, this kind of thing, the same as I am. Whether it's dark fantasy or old movies or something. And so it's really cool that you were able to take that a step further, even then like start collaborating, not just being on a discord server with similar people in a community, but like where you've created a real life friendship out of that. So I love that so much. That's so

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 4:29

Yeah. It's I think that's why people too, were a little bit curious about the work we were doing, because I, I feel it's something that not many are doing. They're, They're using AI for the control to do everything themselves. Like I said, there, there is a little bit of secrecy with prompting and the way you go about things. And I think they're interested in like, well, how do you guys work? Like. are you prompting separately? Like, is there a secret? You know, are there things that you choose to keep to yourself? And it's really like, no, we're working We consider us to be, like, co creatives, not really collaborators at this point. We do everything together and so there really is no separation of what we're doing and I think people find that interesting. So,

Melody aka LeMoon: 5:16

every step of the way we're like talking to each other and making decisions and inputs. So Yeah, it's, it's been great. And I've collaborated with other artists and it wasn't like this. Sometimes they just want to do the editing or write the story and you're doing the prompting and they animating. And so each person has a role, but our our, friendship work collaboration is more co creation, yeah. Every step of the way we work together. I love that.

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 5:51

Yeah. Not to run away with it, but it is really nice to we share the timeline and everything and so we can get into that later, but we'll put things in and there's a trust that you can replace whatever you want. It's not like I'm going to open it and be like, why did you get rid of that? You know, that's, that's, what's really nice about the, the dynamic

Melody aka LeMoon: 6:13

trust you like 100 percent completely,

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 6:16

Same.

Mike: 6:16

And how does, yeah, just out of curiosity, how does that work then? So like, do you cause you're on, like you're in different places, I know, different time zones. So how does that work in terms of like, does one of you have an idea and say, Hey, we should do a story about this. Or do you like have regular meetings, like check in times that you decide that you're going to talk about things? What's the process when you're going to come up with a new video? How does, how does that start?

Melody aka LeMoon: 6:41

I think lately we, we decided to get like iPhones, both. So we could, we could like chat in the message app. And like having our chats separates because we, we were used to chat all over the place, like on Instagram, on discord and Twitter, and it was all over the place. So now every idea and important talk happens through there. And then we usually make our images. on Discord and we have we have found tools that allows us to collaborate together and, yeah, the different times zone we, I think we, we, we, managed to make it work yeah, in our, advantage because I feel sometimes we're like a really big working machine because we can pretty much work all around the clock if we have a deadline because once I'm asleep Dina can work and before she's awake I can work like for maybe five or six hours and so it's really nice to have that and to be able to to make deadlines very tight deadlines we we have experienced that we have for like competitions festivals or even for commission work. So, this is happening more and more, and we have, because I'm in France, and Dina is near New York we have A big Hours together, like my, all my whole afternoon is your morning, and then beginning of afternoon, so yeah, we can work together pretty well with the differences.

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 8:30

And our sleep habits aren't great. So there, there's extra time in there where I'm waking up and I'm like, Oh, Melody answered, but it's like 4 a. m. And I'm like, Oh yeah. Okay. Like, whatever. And then I'll go back to sleep or like, she'll say something. And I'm like, isn't it like 3 a. m. there? What are you doing? But you know, there's some there's some bleeding into the

Melody aka LeMoon: 8:49

Yeah, and the best ideas come up like half awake and

Mike: 8:54

Yeah. Have you felt like, like since AI has come out, that like you've found a new sort of creative purpose at all?'cause it's, I, I imagine you both were doing creative things prior just because there's such a great artistic style to like what you, you do. I know I felt this personally, it was like, I was doing video stuff, but when I was able to do AI video stuff, suddenly, you were talking about the sleep, I felt like I was getting no sleep, because I could just like, be doing, it was almost an addictive thing, where it's like, you just want to keep doing as much as you can, because it's, it's the opposite, I feel like, of like, doom scrolling, where you're looking at things, and you're just consuming things all the time, you're able to create something, And see the result and create something and see a result. And if you're a creative person, that's just like, it's like a high that you can't get off of sometimes it's hard to disconnect

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 9:46

We all talk about like the dopamine hit like you just like a rush of like wow That's amazing or that's exactly what I wanted or it's not what I wanted, but it's so much better, you know

Mike: 9:56

Let me change this part of it. Oh, now I'll change this part of it. Yeah.

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 9:59

Yeah, so I actually wasn't doing creative things Stuff before this in a professional manner. I was always kind of like a I'm like a DIY, kind of jack of all trades, get into a little bit of everything type of creative and I guess I always had stories, but really no outlet for it. So this is the first time in my life that I feel like I have a way to get these stories out there in a way that people can enjoy and that I'm like satisfied with. So it's been kind of life changing, honestly, for me. Before that I was a paralegal. that. So, I mean, I was doing that. I went to college for business and we've kind of talked about this like briefly, but I graduated during like the recession. And so it was like, do not go to school for art.

Mike: 10:54

and

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 10:55

You will not, you will be so poor and you will regret it. And so I went for business management and management and like it. And I actually was like a manage, like on the management track at Geico and I quit. I like could not, I was like dying inside. So I quit that and I ended up falling into the paralegal, like a law office. And I did like that, but then I had kids and that was, Really not kids COVID. I really wasn't able to work. I was working and watching them from home and it was just like, this is not working. So I kind of hit pause on that and then found this, which I never really imagined it would involve, like evolve into more, but I'm so grateful that it has.

Mike: 11:41

has.

Melody aka LeMoon: 11:42

I remember like a few days ago. You told me damn. This is a career. It's not like not like, yeah, Craft I do crafty thing I do on my own at night. It's becoming a real career for us

Mike: 11:56

Mm hmm. Yeah. And, and on that note, I know you've done, I don't I'm not saying the right word, like business collaborations with people. Like you did the, the notebook one, the Lenovo, is that what it is? Are there other ones? Are you finding I know a lot of people have these questions of like, how do I, how do I make money? I enjoy doing this, but how do I make money off of this? It sounds like you've found an avenue probably with your business background, I assume being able to know how to navigate, no,

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 12:22

It's really Melody, honestly, it's really Melody. I feel like I have more people who come to me with like, do you do music videos? Will you do like a series like a commissioned series? She really has been, and that's also what's been great about this. Partnership is I feel like we both bring in different elements I always say to her how like how are you getting these like I got I'm dry on that end. So it's been great

Melody aka LeMoon: 12:51

Yeah, but it's

Mike: 12:52

great. Yeah,

Melody aka LeMoon: 12:53

It's a really, I don't know, because people just contact me. I am not like actively searching for anything. I think my account on Instagram was one of the old ones, you know, the AI, ones, you know, creative people. I think it was midjourney, these three, when I started. So it was a while ago and I don't know, I, I have less followers than you, but yeah, I don't know why, but like agencies and stuff like that, they, they tend to contact me. So I don't know exactly why. Sometimes it's through our websites also, I think people find, find us. So but we don't do anything. It's a bit of Instagram, a bit of Twitter, a bit of websites, and they just find us. That's it. No secret.

Mike: 13:51

not really,

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 13:52

my followers are not really like it's they're wonderful But they're more people who are there to watch the watch the content there. It's not like they're you know Oh, this would be a great Business, let's get them. So yeah, it's just two different things. And I think that's also important just for people out there who are worried about the followers. It's not really about like the number it's about, like the right people finding you and I guess reaching the right audience for that. So.

Melody aka LeMoon: 14:22

think I did a few early interviews also. And that, that may have helped because I do have a background in video production TV production, video games. So this I think people look. For AI artists with also a background in anything productive like video. if you do video, they will look if you have like a professional background in that. So maybe that helped also, I don't know. Honestly, I don't have helpful, so the answer, but we, we do bring both projects and we decided to share it. And so it definitely brings more project for both of us. And I think it's the best decision ever, because I'm stressing so much with deadlines, negotiating, having just someone else looking at the project propositions and having someone to talk to makes it a hundred times better. better.

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 15:27

yeah, I, I agree. And also like we, we mentioned that we're both moms and we're home with the kids and it's summer and there are things that I would never be able to have met the deadline on if it wasn't for having a partnership and somebody else kind of chipping in and carrying the weight and making sure that like You know, we say it all the time. I'm gonna be useless today. My kids, like, need me. They want to go to the pool. They want to do this or that. And the other person's like, it's raining here. I got it. You know, like, I'll work on it. So it's been great with that, too.

Mike: 16:02

It's raining here, I got it. So it's been great with that too. Working on it, and then later on

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 16:11

Yeah. And With the staggered timelines, like, you know, we have the shared editing program. So it actually works out better. Cause like, you would think that it would be great if we were in the same time zone and we were like doing things simultaneously, but really only one of us can be in there at a time. So it's actually better because she's working on it. There's, I'm not like, I got to get in there. And then later on in the day when she's done, it's like, okay, I'm going to go in now. So it, it actually works out, I think, better for us.

Mike: 16:41

That's cool. So you're generating all of this stuff in discord, like on a shared private discord server, where you can see the images and see the videos. And then you have an online editing tool where you can, one of you can log in, do an edit. It syncs it to the cloud and the other one can start doing, picking up the edit from there. Is that how that

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 17:00

Yeah.

Mike: 17:00

That's great. That's a great workflow. I have things, and I'm not sure, like, now that I, I just kind of watch videos and I'm not sure which is which, so there's like Denny the Shark and the, I feel like Daisy Mae and the Infants, I'm gonna say it wrong, of St. Jean, that's the collab, right? I feel like

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 17:18

Yeah. Those are

Melody aka LeMoon: 17:18

We all co op, yeah.

Mike: 17:20

yeah.

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 17:20

pretty much if it's in color, it's a collab at this point, I, I pretty much if I'm doing something just messing around on my own, it's black and white. So you can pretty much be guaranteed if it's up there and it's in color, it's ours.

Mike: 17:33

there and it's in color. It's ours. a theme that I notice in a lot of your stuff. Was like the storybook or children's book kind of style of storytelling. Where does that come from? Cause I think it's really effective. And to me, it's one of the things that, you know, earlier you said, we're not sure why people are contacting us, you know, about these

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 17:54

Yeah.

Mike: 17:55

and stuff. I know why they are because your stuff is like visually very interesting and the storytelling is very solid and there's always twist endings to it like I, I think of them as, you know, almost like these Twilight Zone kind of things condensed to like one minute. Or black mirror, but that seems too techie, but it feels more like a children's book version of a twilight zone episode in like one or two minutes. And I really liked that about it. And I think visually they're so interesting. And so I think that's why people are contacting you because you're doing great work. But then I, one of the themes that I noticed in it is like, it seems like a lot of times there's like TV screens or like It are involved and there's like two different worlds. There's, you know, whether it's a TV screen or like an art frame, there's someone, there's two different sides of a world that you see in, the stories coming out where, like, is that a conscious thing or is that just like something that you, that you are drawn to as a storyteller?

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 18:53

So, this was like weirdly pointed out to us and I did not even like, realize it. There were two things. One, that it's become kind of like our signature mark that we have these screens within our videos. It was like, it wasn't that I was intentionally doing it or that we were intentionally doing it for every video, but what We are drawn to is this like world building and just kind of like Easter eggs. And I like adding to the story. If we can fit in something that relates on the TV screen instead of just a blank screen to kind of tie it all together or a nod to something else, why, why wouldn't we? And so it kind of started with that and has just been become like something we both really enjoy doing consistently. The second thing was Kind of very similarly, we were told that we seem to use photographs as proof that something has happened in our videos, and I never really thought of that, but it was the same thing because we're inserting these photographs the same way we do with the TV screens, and It was interesting to like see that in multiple stories and it was like, oh yeah, I guess we are kind of using that technique there as well to like prove things. so it's, it's like, we do it because we like it, but the goal, what, or like the meaning behind it wasn't necessarily intentional.

Melody aka LeMoon: 20:31

I have my, my theory about it. have another Other one, like I think older people are drawn to AI. Not the, the young ones. At least what, what is called the millennials. Yeah, I, I think millennials, so So up in another analog era, and then throughout their young years having digital coming their way and living through digital age. And I think AI brings a certain analog quality to it because you can revive stuff like the old tv screens and the the texture of 1980s sitcom shows and and And TV is like, I think I was brought up by TV. Like I had a TV in my room. I was three years old and I had my TV and during holidays, vacation and stuff like this, I watched TV. It was the main activity. And I think putting TVs in everything also brings back a little bit of that. Lost time because once digital arrived. It's, the analog era is lost forever, you know, so it's just nostalgia Deep nostalgia for me. Yeah,

Mike: 21:55

forever, you know? So, it's just nostalgia. It's nostalgia for me, yeah.

Melody aka LeMoon: 22:13

actually four third. So it's the format of old. Yeah

Mike: 22:19

of One of the reasons probably drawn to that because of it is

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 22:27

we did that for a few reasons, probably drawn to that because of, of the nostalgia aspect, it is a little more pleasing for social media.

Mike: 22:37

is

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 22:38

I feel that generating in that format. is better as well. When you start to generate in the longer formats, I feel like I need to do a smaller and then expand on it. Yeah, I just feel like there are many reasons why that size kind of works for us, but yeah, it's become kind of like our staple to the point where if a competition is like we need it 16, nine, we're like, all right, you know, I guess.

Mike: 23:08

And I think you're right about the, it working better originally to, I don't know if it's still this way, but I know a lot of the. Image generators were trained on like square videos. And I remember trying to do some things once where you would do nine by sixteen and it would like duplicate a person, you know, so their head would be here and then the head would come out of their torso or something. So it just seems like they, they understand square a little bit better anyway, which is cool. I

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 23:34

I think there's more detail in it and that's why if you you do it on a smaller like a 4x3 or you know, 4x5, you get more detail and then you expand and fill in the rest. I feel like sometimes that's lost when you just go straight to the the longer

Melody aka LeMoon: 23:50

Yeah, I I think if you're prompting 69 you will get All the images trained on recent films, films. you will get more cinematic digital style. So if you're aiming for a different, older style, you have to start by a square or four, four, three for, for sure. You will hit different pockets of like trained data.

Mike: 24:16

Yeah, that's a great point. Good observation. It's almost like that thing how people talk about how style, at least in the US style hasn't really changed since 2000 and so, like ever since like smartphones have come out, like, you know, fashion and style, like everything has just started to look the same. Whereas you used to be able to say, look at a photo and say, that's from the seventies, that's from the eighties, that's from the sixties. Now it's like, It's either 2005, 2015 or, or today, you know? So I feel like that's the training image stuff too, just doing the square. I think like you're saying, it probably gives you more access to the, the nostalgia kind of images that you're going for. And what about have, has it come up to you about like, it seems like there's like the, the doll like appearance, like some of them, like there are actual dolls, you know, or like robot kind of dolls. Is there any kind of significance behind that or is it just kind of like a stylistic choice? Like, you know, if you try and generate very realistic people, it looks terrible sometimes. So Is that part of the

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 25:16

think it's

Mike: 25:17

Doing the black and

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 25:19

I mean, we both, I was doing the black and white dolls with the giant eyes. Melody always had lots of big eyes and lots of them, just lots of eyes and everything she does. And I think there's something like, that uncanny feeling about it that we love, that it's like familiar but something is just not quite right with it and so it pulls you in a little bit, like you're watching these giant eyes and they're cute but they're also making you a little bit uncomfortable.

Mike: 25:50

uncomfortable. So,

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 25:51

So I think at this point we've just we also love the style of it that we just keep going back to it

Melody aka LeMoon: 25:58

And it's also animates really well. Because I don't know if it, I, I'm always trying to think on what it is trained. And maybe there are a lot of like puppetry videos. I don't know in the training data and the dolly creatures we have and persons they are animated like puppets sometime and

Mike: 26:26

adds,

Melody aka LeMoon: 26:27

or like stop motion. And it,

Mike: 26:29

it, it's, like,

Melody aka LeMoon: 26:31

It's like goes there and gives us the the great animation style we're looking for also. Because if you if you take realistic people, it will be even uncannier, I think, because stuff, it does some crazy stuff, gives you an know. finger on the It's fine. It's And it works for

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 27:04

Yeah. It allows us to be a little bit more forgiving with like we just had this talk with somebody where we were like, so what AI gives you an extra finger on someone's hand. It's fine. Like, it's weird and it works for our style. If we were going with realistic people, that would be, we'd need to redo that part. We'd need the five fingered hand, you know? But we're going with characters that are quirky and I think people appreciate it because it kind of teeters on, like, between, like, cinema and art, you know? So there's a, it's a little bit more forgiving with what we're putting in and I think that's kind of where we thrive. Because we want it to be engaging and also thought provoking. We want to tell the story, but we also want to have that artistic flow to it. So, yeah, I think that style is really, really great for us.

Melody aka LeMoon: 28:02

is think also like not a lot of people want to use AI commercially on like TV ads or anything or producing full series or animation series because they think there are too much little things that are not right. We think that's. the story is more important so far. So if you have the stories, the little details, like 90 percent of people won't see the little details, if like the belt is on the left or on the right, or if they have like on ears coming out or whatever. And if it's like, like people won't use these amazing tools just because of that. And I'm, this tool I, I will be.

Mike: 28:52

that.

Melody aka LeMoon: 28:52

Happy to, to, to have like a, a test public and tell, see if they can tell, because

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 29:01

Or if it bothers

Melody aka LeMoon: 29:02

yeah,

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 29:04

I think that what I like about it too, is that

Mike: 29:08

like audiences are smarter

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 29:09

I feel like audiences are smarter than like film companies give them credit for like, have you ever watched a movie and they explain something and you're like, I didn't need you to say that I got it. Like, you know, it was pretty evident what was happening. And I think they're, I think that's kind of what this is doing like the audience is smart enough to follow along with the story. The ears are not throwing them like away from it took nothing away from the tell of the story, and they were able to come to the conclusion on their own. I don't think you know it needs to be so rigid, and I feel like that. I see it all the time, especially, I mean, I get it with my kids when they watch shows and they need to learn, but sometimes, you know, you watch an adult show and you're like, I really, it takes away from it. Now I feel like this is weird that you just said like, Wow, like, I found this in the cabinet. And you're like, I just saw you find it in the cabinet. You didn't have to tell us, you know?

Mike: 30:05

my version of that, that my pet peeve is like, there'll be a big dramatic scene and they'll kind of pause the action and they'll, someone will be like, wait, why are you doing this? Like, what? You know, it's like, well, we know, like we're following along. Like, you don't have to like, have someone spell out the stakes of this scene. Like, I, I'm watching this movie. I know what's going on. You know

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 30:24

Yeah. It's like the teacher that stops you mid test to be like, okay, everybody, are you still, you still with me? Okay, good. Let's continue. And it's like, we don't need that. Yeah.

Melody aka LeMoon: 30:34

I think I heard somewhere that they doing that because of, of Netflix, people are on their phone and they need to repeat that. Like it's a guideline. If you want anything on Netflix, you have to repeat several times the same important. same important, Because people are not like

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 30:55

Focus. Their attention span.

Mike: 30:56

Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. I feel like I, that's what I love about like the recaps now. Cause like sometimes I'm like, which, where am I at with this show that I picked that I left abandoned three weeks ago So one thing that I wanted to ask you about was the, I know you use 11 labs, I believe for a lot of the voices. And there's two things that are interesting to me and some of them, the voice is whispering and that's kind of an interesting choice, I think. But then the other thing is that a lot of Sometimes they'll be in French, sometimes they'll be in English. And I feel like it's so easy to just say, let's do an English version and a French version, but there's only the French version and it's subtitled. And I actually like that. I feel like it fits the, the, stories a little bit better sometimes. So I'm just kind of curious, like, When you're generating the voices, what kind of thought are you putting into that? Because that's such a big part of what makes your movies work so well, I think. I

Melody aka LeMoon: 31:54

Well I think we did just the mysterious series in French. It was a choice we made. Like, it was, yeah. Decided like this and all the stories are kind of happening in France you, you will see like a lot of of little things that really happen in France, like the catacombs story is based on a true story. So yeah. There's a little bit of everything. And for the the voiceover, funny story is that the the voices were, they were like one or two that were really good in French on, on 11 labs, but it wasn't so good in the pronunciation when we started using non native languages or the, the synthetic ones. So what I did is that use the Speech to speech What, what is it called? Like speech yeah. from 11 labs. So I did all the the voiceovers myself. I acted all the characters, the narrator, everything, and use that with voices that were in the catalogs in the, in the elevenlabs catalog and, and it works so good. Like really, it's the best. Feature I ever found on there. It's not really known, known. And

Mike: 33:17

there, if

Melody aka LeMoon: 33:18

if, if there, if you're not English and you're looking for other accents or anything, you should just do it yourself and use that. It's amazing.

Mike: 33:28

Wait, wait. So just so I understand,, you would speak in French or you would speak in English?

Melody aka LeMoon: 33:34

in French and then I used one of their voices to match what I'm saying. And it,

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 33:41

like layer it like mask

Melody aka LeMoon: 33:43

it. replaces my voice, but it keeps the tones the, the, the. inflections and everything the reason the way I say it and it just changed the voice like a voice

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 33:55

She actually, somewhere

Melody aka LeMoon: 33:56

And

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 33:57

she has a post somewhere with showing it and it's really interesting to hear because it was actually the first time that I had really heard them and I knew she was doing it and I had heard it for maybe one of the One of the videos, but there were like a few different ones back to back. And it's really interesting to hear how well it keeps it.

Melody aka LeMoon: 34:15

and like I did an old lady's voice Like accents and stuff like

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 34:21

Yeah. She was doing like actors and

Melody aka LeMoon: 34:23

and you can did And so it's not just the, the, the, output. Like sometimes it says on always the same kind of rhythm. And so you can have like, Oh, and hi. And ha ha, you can laugh and having everything you want. So even if you're not an actor, it's always better. I feel

Mike: 34:45

Yeah, Yeah, especially, I've noticed that with like laughing and stuff like that, like it does, it literally like pronounce the laugh, like it doesn't laugh, it'll be like, haha, you hear something you're like, oh, that's not good. So it sounds like this is a great way to like really have expressive AI characters, which I hope a lot of people will do more of because sometimes you just hear the very flat like AI voice. It's like, oh, like this is hurting your content. Yeah.

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 35:10

I know who that is.

Mike: 35:11

Yeah, that's the default voice. Yeah.

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 35:14

Yeah,

Mike: 35:15

That's a great tip. Yeah.

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 35:16

Yeah,

Mike: 35:17

When Luma Dream Machine came out, like, I saw, like, one of your videos there. I think you have, like, two videos on their home page now. Do you get access to a lot of different tools and stuff? Like, do people reach out to you, not just for sponsorships, but do you early access to a lot of tools and like, what's, what are some of the things that you enjoy about, those sneak peeks

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 35:38

I think it's like, first of all, I'm like super flattered because I'm like, I did not, I had no video experience a year ago and like, it's so flattering to me that people are like, We need you to try this. I'm always like me. the tech of like, but it's just like really every amazing to see the tech of like where we are going. It's so exciting. And every time we get kind of like new information on like something someone's working on or like, you know, a new feature that's coming out, we like like, can't Believe it. Again, the partnership works really well because we both use tools differently. And I like have said this before, but sometimes I can't get something to work. And I'm like, I don't know this feature. I don't know about this. And then she'd be like, no, it's great. This is what you got to do. And so there's like, We're teaching each other also. We're giving tips on how to effectively use it. And I think it really helps. It kind of cuts down on the exploration time and like, you know, familiarizing yourself with the tools. But yourself with the tools,

Melody aka LeMoon: 36:50

it's crazy to see the big tech companies fighting over us because It's always like escalating, you know, this one is doing like the new generative, like Luma best than open AI and then runway. And we were in the beta also. And then they had an image and they ask us, what next feature do you want to have? And we like say to them, and it, it's like fluttering. floodplain. Yeah.

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 37:22

yeah, it is

Mike: 37:24

I think that's one thing that's really interesting about being in the early stages of AI stuff is that if you are doing really interesting stuff, like you're doing, that you're actually part of being able to shape what these big companies are creating, because they're listening to the people that are not just using it, but using it to make like really interesting content with it. So it's like, you actually have a chance to shape, what the future looks like in a way, which is a really cool. And I feel like. A fleeting moment. Like I can imagine in three years, that's not going to be the case. They're just going to be like, you know, how do we make as much money as possible from everyone? But it's very cool to have a voice in that. I imagine

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 38:04

And we're also super thankful because we have access to all of these features. We're able to make our videos better and experiment and include not just one tool because we're poor and we cannot afford to own all these tools. It's, they're really allowing us to see what we can do and how we can make a piece like the best it can possibly be. And so we've got like, at this point, I feel like we've got like,

Mike: 38:32

got like, at

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 38:34

At least five minimum tools in each video, like at least, but every day I feel like that's increasing. So, you know, it's, it's really, we're fortunate because I know people will ask me like, well, how much is that? And I always feel bad because, you know, I, I, don't actually know. And I know people need to make hard choices about like, which one am I going to. Use. And so I kind of will try to like, at least take the knowledge I have on the programs and like steer them in the right direction. If you're looking to do this, then you may want to invest in PICA. If you want this, you may want to invest in runway. So, but yeah, we're really lucky with that.

Mike: 39:14

Yeah, that's good. I, one tip I have on that too is like to a lot of times I feel like you don't want to get locked into the one year thing, like the recurring thing for a year, even though it might be a little bit more for the month. The company's changed so much and new things come out. It was like, there was a point where we had like Luma and then Gen 3 and then Kling all within like a month, I think came out. And it's like, well, you know, if you're trying to figure out where do I spend my. 10 or 15 a month. It's like that changes every month. You know, there might be

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 39:45

Yeah, I like the only thing I think I pay for the year for it's magnific,

Mike: 39:52

Hmm.

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 39:53

but I could probably do that with mid journey, honestly, at this point, because that has been a staple for me, but everything else I'm doing monthly that I need to because, yeah, I mean, sometimes you have, you have a project that you're using it. Non stop for and then you'll have like four months where you don't need this tool or you're not using it And so, You know, it's just it's just better to stop and restart it when you do

Mike: 40:18

yeah

Melody aka LeMoon: 40:18

Yeah. I think I, I only have mid journey on a yearly basis and they don't offer any partnerships. So and Suno also, but I think I paid this on the mounts, but I use it all the time.

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 40:33

yeah

Melody aka LeMoon: 40:34

audio tool. Yeah.

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 40:36

see and I actually lowered my subscription because I feel like to be honest melody handles most of the music And so I have it so that I can also Try out prompts and, and contribute, but I find that I'm not using them as much as I was. So I lowered that. So, you know, that's, that's always good too. Sometimes if we have something, I'll, I'll increase like mid journey. I was on the

Mike: 41:03

was on

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 41:04

I was on the 60

Mike: 41:05

plan,

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 41:06

plan and I was like burning through it. We had so many projects. I'm like, all right, I got to upgrade to the 120. I don't know, but yeah.

Mike: 41:15

So here, here's my timeline of how I remember things. It seems like there was mid journey and you could do really cool images but you really couldn't animate them. You could just sort of like zoom in, you know, with the video editor. And then Gen 2 came out and you could do text to image. And then eventually they released being able to do image to video. And then there was kind of this war between Pika and Runway about image to video quality for awhile. But it seemed like that really, like people glommed on to this image to video is like, I think it's better for the most part, but now I feel like some of the actual footage of text to video, like what I've seen with like Kling and I haven't done as much with Runway, but like, because it's, you don't get as many if you're not in the, the the programs or whatever, but. I feel like the text of video is getting better, but if you're trying to tell a specific story and you have a look that you're dialing into, it might still be better to do mid journey. Is that, do you feel like is all of your stuff still doing mid journey to a video generator?

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 42:17

so usually, I

Melody aka LeMoon: 42:22

have like a few shots of text to video because sometimes this is the only way to get certain very crazy effects or like going through vortex or stuff like this. Or so, but I'm, I've, I'm, finding really difficult to have like consistency with text to video. So it's cool if you're really looking for one specific shot. But But again I think if you're looking like for physics and like water dropping and like transformation, something transforming into something else, it's still very good. good. I think

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 43:03

think if you also have more of a cinematic style, it's probably easier to keep that style consistency. I will say that I tried cling for a project that we're working on and I felt like it was handling the text to video really well with the style. And I was impressed because I've had a hard time kind of getting our style. I'm not going to say like characters, but I'm talking about like landscape or like just shots in between. I think characters, we will always have to use some sort of image to video, but yeah, for the in betweens, I was really impressed with, with what Kling for the in betweens, I really impressed with what Clean was putting out there. Yeah,

Mike: 43:55

Last question. I promise. So your, your images are, so this is something I think may appeal to a lot of people who have seen your work, but there's. There's so many layers and details in the images. Not just the characters, but like things happening in the background or like, stylistic details that really match the overall aesthetic of the piece. Are you doing this all with like one, like very elaborate prompt, or do you go in and you kind of like generate something and just start in painting those details with the in painting tool? Both. Let me, let me give you an example. Like, people going for stuff in style, you

Melody aka LeMoon: 44:41

is one very powerful trick for prompting is using a decade. Like if you're going for a certain style, you know, this is, oh, this is so 1960s, for example. And if you, you put this in the front of your prompt, you will get elements of decor from 1960s. So it will work for architecture, decor, cars, anything, even hairstyles and stuff like this, clothes, Anything. So this is the most powerful tool in prompting. And then of course we're changing stuff. Like we know when you like for this is coming to mind, like the other robots Amy, Amy, Amy we wanted like streamline buildings. So to have like 1950s feel, and we kept adding those details. Sometimes manually or just like pushing that prompt button again and again and again, regenerate, until you get what you want. Yeah, that's it. great. That's a good

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 45:51

I think, yeah, decades, color schemes metals, background or saying Just a key keywords to kind of, or even saying like chaotic background or saying what you want, kind of in the background, we'll kind of pull it in or the, the scene. But yeah, sometimes we do go in, like I said, if we're like, Oh, it would be cool. If there was a picture of, I don't know, a picture of Denny, the shark in the background on her wall, like she knows who that is. Then we would go in and try and get a picture frame. It doesn't need to be him, but we try and go and do a picture frame. Sometimes we try and get him in it. Oftentimes we'll just get a picture frame, cut it out, and insert, you know, edit it, and then animate. But

Melody aka LeMoon: 46:35

We're not afraid of edit pictures, I know some people are very purists with the AI and they want the perfect output. We're not scared of editing stuff in Photoshop. So. in Photoshop. Yeah, and I think that's important. So we want to do what's going to be best for the story. doesn't

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 47:03

really And I think that comes back around to us saying the story is more important. And so we want to do what's going to be best for the story. It doesn't really matter if it's pure AI or if it's a blend of different tools that we know how to use. whatever's going to be best for it. So

Mike: 47:22

that was almost like a thing a year or so ago where like you wanted to show something was 100 percent AI, you know, but now it's like people, I feel like there's almost a backlash against that to some extent, but I think people just want to see a really interesting story. That's like an AI helps you bring a more interesting visual style to telling those stories. So I think people like that.

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 47:45

yeah,

Mike: 47:46

That's great. And for people who are interested in, in seeing what you've done and what you're doing next, what's, are the best places to find you? And I'll put links to all of these as well.

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 47:58

Yeah. Yeah. Instagram.

Melody aka LeMoon: 48:01

website, there are all the links on it. So, so

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 48:05

that's true. But yeah, we're on Twitter and Instagram. etherealmoon.

Melody aka LeMoon: 48:10

welcome.

Mike: 48:13

Ethereal moon. Yeah. Ethereal moon dot X, Y, Z. Very cool. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk. This has been an absolute pleasure. It's nice talking to you having watched a lot of your movies. And thanks for sharing a lot of tips as well.

Dina aka Ethereal Gwirl: 48:29

Thanks for having us.

Melody aka LeMoon: 48:30

Thank you.

Mike: 48:32

And thank you listener for being here. If you enjoy conversations like this, Be sure to subscribe. Until next time. Keep generating.